It just seems you can never get through an Olympics without at least one judging controversy which draws scrutiny to the results. The international governing body then takes action and rules get changed. But despite the ever changing rules, we still get controversy.
Canadians Capture A Questionable Gold
Russia’s Evgeni Plushenko tried to bring a spotlight on judging after his defeat to American Eric Lysacek, but it kind of went on dead ears. Plushenko was ungracious in receiving the silver medal, calling Lysacek out for not attempting a quad and correlating his routine to ice dancing.
Had Plushenko hit his moves, perhaps his complaints may have resonated, but the guy struggled on every jump in his routine. Figure skating is about flawless execution of the moves you attempt tied to the difficulty of the moves. If Plushenko wants risk alone rewarded, he is advised to pick up a snowboard and hit the half pipe as he was trying to create controversy where none existed.
The complaints on figure skating judging needs to placed squarely on the Ice Dancing competition. While judging changes have leaned towards giving artistry equal weight to jumps in the overall score in the other figure skating disciplines, Ice Dancing has gone the other direction scoring technical more heavily than ever before. As a result, we were awarded an Ice Dancing champion that struggles to dance and would be more fitting to the pair competition.
Canada’s Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir took the gold in front of a roaring hometown crowd in Vancouver, snatching away a victory that appeared to be in the grasp of USA’s Meryl Davis and Charlie White. The Canadian ice dance team posted the highest free dance scores in the world for the season, getting a personal best of 110.42 for a combined score of 221.57, a personal best. The free skate allowed Virtue and Moir to easily outdistance the Americans who scored a personal best 107.19 in the free skate and a combined 215.74, also a personal best.
Needless to say, the personal best scores were being handed out like complimentary gifts last night. And the Europeans were none to pleased.
“When you compete in your home country the crowd goes crazy and it can help the skaters,” said Italy’s Massimo Scali, who placed fifth with his partner Federica Faiella. I hope that it does not affect the judges. I don’t agree with the system. They [Virtue and Moir] are not real dancers. They are very technical and don’t really ‘dance’ on the ice.”
Harsh criticism for the new Olympics champions.
“We skated the best performance and we have a bronze medal,” Russia’s Maxim Shabalin said. “What can you do? We did everything we could.”
So, was it home cooking judging or is this just sour grapes?
It really gets down to what you expect to see from Ice Dancing. Italy’s Scali really nails it on the head, it is supposed to be about dance interpretation melded with skating technique. If not, then it is just a pairs competition. Virtue and Moir’s interpretation of Mahler’s Fifth Symphony was substantially weaker than other competitors in the final group. While their technical capabilities were superior, their skills didn’t mesh with the music as well as other skaters…which is the whole point of Ice Dancing.
Ice Dancing for years has been criticized for choosing its champions years in advance, making the results on the ice just a show for audiences rather than a true competition. Unfortunately, this didn’t change last night. It was clear that the judges had made the decision to award North America with medals and to signal an end to Russian dominance. The judges behavior was at best embarrassing and at worst deplorable.
Take this in. We saw the two best Ice Dancing performances of the year within the course of 30 minutes. What was the possibility of such an occurrence? Pretty good when the judges made their decision before the event started.
It began back at the 2009 Trophee Eric Bompard, when Virtue and Moir demolished the field, coming in first place for all three skates. The replicated their 2009 Skate Canada International and topped it off with the first ever 10.0 under the new ISU scoring system. The delivered the same dominating results at 2010 Canadian Figure Skating Championship.
So, in less that a year, a team which couldn’t place first in the compulsories, original or free skate portion of any international event became unbeatable. Are we really supposed to believe this?
The reality on the ice last night was the Canada’s Virtue and Moir were the fifth best team in the final group. While they skated admirably in the first two rounds, they didn’t deliver last night and another robbery occurred in Olympics figure skating competition.
While graceful in defeat last night, USA’s Davis and White should take a few pointers from the Russians and Italians about voicing their displeasure of the results. They put on unquestionably the best performance of the evening, bested the Russians and are headed home with a silver.
Tags: 2010 olympics, 2010 winter games, charlie white, evan lysacek, evgeni plushenko, ice dancing, meryl davis, scott moir, tessa virtue
Did you watch the performances at all?!
Tessa and Scott had the BEST performances, especially their original dance (they got the passion of the flamenco perfectly and the free dance where they embodied young love). While many of the other teams had relatively good performances (The Firebird dance was impressive if only for how flexiable the female partner was and the British dance was entertaining) they lacked the grace, emotion and unison required for an artful interpretation. I was moved watching them, and I’m not even Canadian (I’m Portuguese by the way and therefore obviously have no favourites as we suck in ice dance). The American’s also did an amazing job and deserve there second place slot (although I may be a bit biased since I love anything to do with the phantom of the opera and I love Indian culture). So many of the other performers just seemed to go through the motions instead of telling a story. Ice Dance is about technique AND artistry…the problem with judging art is that it is subjective. The Russians had “strange” written all over most of their costume choices. Which left most people watching unable to look past their wardrobe to what they were actually doing on ice. Not to mention that their performance seemed cold and stiff.
I agree with the technical aspects weighing more than the artistic. With Technical marks you either have it down or you don’t, artistic marks are subjective and therefore always subject to differing opinions. The Canadian team did an amazing job (both artistically and technically) and deserve their medal, to suggest otherwise is to be a sore loser.
hi,
Did you even watch the compettion? Did you not notice the penaly for the american’s lift being too long? Did you not notice the twizzle sections were not in unision in anyone besides the americans and the Canadians? Wow what a ridculous artcle. In 2002 pairs and ice dance that was true..
you shouldn’t be writing this blog as you obviously have no knowledge or talent on the subject.
shame on you!
They were the fifth best team? Either you’re blind or just completely biased. Their dance was gorgeous and effortless. It wasn’t just Canadians that thought they deserved gold, there were a majority of American’s who fell in love with Virtue/Moir after seeing their dance and were happy that they won gold. There’s no judging controversy because a majority of the people agreed that they were the best in the competition. It’s just a bunch of sore losers who can’t stand losing so instead of acting gracious about it they decide to complain.
holy sour grapes is right…………why are people such sore losers????? Are you kidding………???? the Russian were out of sych and not strong and still claimed a bronze. they decided long ago that they would just put a first time pair in as the winners, yeah that happens alot in figure skating….????? they were flawless and the most consistent throughout the competition. the only valid point you make is that the americans could say they were worthy of the GOLD. so the judges from all over the world just got it wrong?????? History shows that that could actually be the case with figure skating, but isnt the case here. The two best teams finished first and second. If you want to gripe about the order so be it, but it has sour grapes written all over it……
Deluca….before you start, would you like to get some facts straight so that you could have a little credibility?
You state: “It began back at the 2009 Trophee Eric Bompard……So, in less that a year, a team which couldn’t place first in the compulsories, original or free skate portion of any international event became unbeatable. Are we really supposed to believe this?” Virtue and Moir were world junior champs in 2006; 6th in their first senior’s worlds in 2007; silver in 2008; bronze in 2009.
Robin Cousins, Mens Olympic champion in 1980 said Virtue and Moir were “breathtaking. I’m privileged to have been in the building to see that,” he said. “They have found their own Bolero [the Olympic routine of Torvill and Dean. It was exquisite.”
“I’m proud of ice dancing tonight,” said Gwendal Peizerat of France, who along with Marina Anissina, won ice dance gold in Salt Lake City in 2002. “It was probably one of the greatest ice dancing competitions I’ve seen,” he added referring to the fact that it was well judged.
Richard, the Canadian team was never this dominant. You cannot debate facts. Robin Cousins opinion means little given he is not an ice dancer. Comparing Virtue and Moir or any of last night’s skaters to Torvill and Dean is insanity. None of the performance were breathtaking, they were average at best. If ice dancing continues to gravitate toward technical over dance, we’ll continue to see diminished quality.
Dominic, why don’t you go and do some research and learn the facts. How dare you tell me that Virtue and Moir were never that dominant. Go to the ISU site….errr….that is the International Skating Union…..something about which you are obviously bereft of knowledge. I am therefore debating YOUR non-facts.
Robin Cousins would know one heck of a lot more about figure skating than you ever would, I would think. What exactly are your credentials?
Interesting you did not comment on Peizerat’s opinion, one, that in your narrow mind , should count for something, given that he and his partner were the Ice Dance Gold Medallists in 2002. In case you missed it: ““I’m proud of ice dancing tonight,” said Gwendal Peizerat of France, who along with Marina Anissina, won ice dance gold in Salt Lake City in 2002. “It was probably one of the greatest ice dancing competitions I’ve seen,” he added referring to the fact that it was well judged.”
The Russians were wooden and clunky; the Italians skated a nice dance, but certainly not medal material. The Russians have never been gracious losers: Plushy is first and foremost; Belbin/Agosto were robbed of bronze.
Richard, I’ve obviously hit a nerve with you. Not sure what you’ve got invested here, but I am sorry to inform you that the judging at the Olympics for Ice Dancing was a fraud. Just review the link below:
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2009-10/sbtsdto.htm
The Top 10 results show that 9 of these teams produce their best performance at the Olympics with only one team performing below their best. What are the odds of this Richard? Every team at the top produced their greatest performance this year and in some cases EVER.
I watched the US Nationals on TV. Davis/White, did slightly better, but Belbin/Agosto and Samuelson/Bates performed worse than they did at US Nationals. But the judges said they performed substantially better based on the score. The stench on Ice Dancing for years is they choose the winners beforehand, so long as you don’t fall. After Davis/White set the standard, they just popped people around them.
The Canadians did well last night, but they weren’t better than anyone in the final group for the free skate. Their performance on the ice was not considered in the results and the ISU site proves my point because it is simply not possible that almost every Olympic team delivered their best performance at the same event. Somebody had to perform worse!
Ref the above…
and I quote…
“it is simply not possible that almost every Olympic team delivered their best performance at the same event. Somebody had to perform worse”..
Well actually you’re wrong.. again.. for several reasons..
First.. It’s perfectly possible for teams of ice dancers to produce their best skate all on one night.. It’s the Olympics for heavens sake.. it only happens once every 4 years.. you don’t think they’re going to bring their A game ??
Second.. Ice dance routines are honed over the course of a season.. getting progressively better as they are better trained.. its not at all unusual for them to recieve increasingly good marks as the season goes on.. in fact it would be odd if they didn’t.
Unlike the other skating disciplins; there are no triple jumps to screw up, the lifts are significantly less risky.. as your programmes get tighter and neater and cleaner.. you SHOULD get better and better marks.. they’ll probably be improved upon again at the worlds in 3 weeks..
Doesn’t make it a conspiracy.
Third.. These scores were only the highest awarded internationally..
Both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White to my certain knowledge.. recieved better marks at their own national championships.. so the judges can’t have been THAT biased in their favour can they..
Finally and most importantly.. these marks were based on the opinion of THIS PARTICULAR judging panel… the very fact that they over marked EVERYONE proves that there was NO bias.. not the opposite…
Let’s face it.. this is the OLYMPICS !! Organisers and commercial concerners want it to be the VERY best competition in the world.. so the judges were a bit rich with their marks.. If it makes you feel better take 15 points off everyone’s score.. it doesn’t change the result..
Hey Richard..
You’re so right.. the Russians were clunky.. spent all night on two feet..[except when he was flinging her round by her costume.. since when is THAT dancing] weren’t in a dance hold AT ALL as far as I remember.. I hated everything about them.
One comment I would make..
I find it very interesting that Gwendel Peizerat should have taken it upon himself to comment on the “fairness” of the new judging system.. and how proud he is of the sport..
As I recall.. he and Anissina got a gold medal on the back of the Sale and Pelletier judging scandal in Salt Lake.. I know they corrected the fix on the Pairs competition side by giving S and P a much deserved Gold medal.. but no one ever commented on the obvious in the Ice Dance.
If Peizerat and Aniissina were going to win anyway… why would France agree to the fix?
And if they WEREN’T going to win anyway… how come they did????
Methinks only half the “fix”.. got fixed!!
Scott Hamilton wasn’t an Ice dancer either.. but further down the page you hold him up as the only commenator who’s opinion mattered because he had skating knowledge..
Make you mind up Dom…
Oh and just so you know… Robin Cousins has spent last 5 years working very closely with two people who DO know a bit about Ice Dance… their names are Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean..
Scott Hamilton on the other hand has not…
Not sure where you are getting sour grapes, I am simply pointing out that a number of people disagree with the results. When the competitors themselves suggest there is something wrong, it should be reviewed. Plushenko is making himself look like a fool over one move.
What the Italians and Russians point out is quite valid and deserves attention. When the Canadians skated, it looked more like pairs skating than ice dancing. After watching last night’s event, I have to agree with the Italian and Ruskies. There needs to be more of definition to what ice dancing is, as it is blurring towards pairs.
While the Canadians technical ability was the best of all of the final group, their dance interpretation was the weakest. Their final skate should have been rated sub-100 points had the dance interpretation been scored properly. There are two halves to ice dancing scoring and the judges got it wrong last night. You can’t be the worst in dance interpretation and set the highest score of the year.
It still would have rated them silver or bronze, as they were clearly the best after the first two rounds. It takes nothing away from the accomplishments of the Canadians. Fault the judges for heavily inflating the scores, not only of the Canadians, but also the Americans.
Dolph is correct that the Americans were worthy as well, but what it gets down to is how and what is being judged. Neither of these teams were head and shoulders that much better than the other three teams in the final group, but the scoreboard said differently. That is the problem that needs addressing because it suggests judging problems have not been eliminated and they are still picking their favorites.
Their dance interpretation was the weakest ??????????????????????
I think you need to adjust your verticle hold Dom.. your TV is clearly on the blink.
I was in the room.. and I can tell you.. they were so far and away better than the other couples it was almost like they were in another competition.
Now go back to commenting on something you understand and leave discussions on topics like this to the grown ups.. ok.
I’m thinking that the Italians are just complaining because they’ve found a sport where purposely falling down, isn’t going to help them.
HAhahahahah!
Now that isn’t JUST Italians… the Portugese are good at those sports too. ;o)
I would also like to know your credentials?
The Italians are obviously sore and I cannot figure out for what reason. I am a figure skater (American) and they are lucky to be in the 5th position. As for the Russians, their OD was ridiculous. Furthermore, they had very few transitions and skated far apart from each other. Their edges were scratchy and not clean. How in the world you think they were better than the Canadians is beyond me. Figure skating has had it;s judging scandals in the past but as far as I’m concerned they got it right this time around.
FYI…Tessa/Scott were 2nd at 2008 World Championships and 3rd at 2009 World Championships…they have been around for a few years. Had it not been for her injury last season they probably would have won every event. Remember, they didnt compete on the Grand Prix last season and missed crucial training time.
You are 100 percent wrong.
So are the Italians and Russians wrong to criticize them Joe? My opinion and your opinion is meaningless. The Italians complained that they didn’t dance…and the fact of the matter is that their is truth to their complaint. There is a blur happening between ice dancing and pairs skating and the Canadians benefitted from a broken judging system. Under the 2002 judging rules, the Canadians don’t make the podium because the quality of dancing and that interpretation mattered more. That is the point the Russians and Italians are making and I happen to agree with them. What concerns the athletes competing matters most, not yours or my opinion.
So just to clarify then..
TWO pairs complain.. TWENTY THREE pairs do not.. but the 2 pairs who complain MUST be right… that’s the thrust of your argument ??
And you think the old system was better because the SKATING !! was LESS important than the quality of the DANCING and the interpretation ..??
Dear God help us all…
However.. I’m sorry to wee on your firework YET again.. but even under the old system [IF it were administered fairily].. Virtue and Moir would still have become Olympic champions.. they are better skaters, better dancers, better entertainers.. and betters sports.
Oh and Joe.. quite right.. the Russians OD was farcical.. and it had NOTHING WHATEVER to do with dancing….
Ignore him Joe.. he knows nothing.
People in the skating world have been making Torvill and Dean comparisons regarding Virtue and Moir for 3 or more years.
As you quite rightly say… if Tessa hadn’t had to have surgery on both her legs in 2008 they would have been World Champs last year..
You know it.. I know it.. everybody with a brain larger than a pea knows it.
he’s just trying to be controversial.. he should have picked a subject he knew something about.
Dominic Deluca, who are these people who disagree with the results? YOU and your cousins?? Even the NBC commentators said that this is the first time that there are no questions with the judging in ice dancing. As for the Americans, I agree they were great (although not so graceful as the Canadians) but if they decided to go over the time allowed for a lift, they have to deal with the consequences. That is the way sports go (ask the favourite Dutch speed skater who got disqualified).
Sour grapes all the way. This blog has no credibility. BTW, the Italians were horrible (and I am an Italian!).
Nan, there is a funny thing about the web, you get details about where traffic comes from. Over a thousand people have visited this blog post, most coming from Google. The terms they used were related to Ice Dancing and judging issues given that is what the article is about. That’s probably how you found the article yourself given 95% of the visitor reading this article came from search terms in Google.
Take your ethnocentric rose-colored glasses off for a second and acknowledge others opinions. You obviously didn’t take a look at the link I posted here in the comments that goes to the ISU site. I encourage you to go read it.
The Canadians put on a good performance, but their free skate was the weakest of the top 5. The way all the positions played out were predetermined, just accept it. The only NBC commentator with knowledge of skating is Scott Hamilton, and he didn’t say it. That was shared by the Paula Abdul bimbo they placed in the both.
The score don’t lie. 9 of the Top 10 score of year just happened. The judging system failed, which is the point of my article and the ISU needs to take steps to ensure their is a divide between what is ice dancing and what is pairs. The Canadians didn’t dance and the criticism from their competitors is justified in my opinion.
Under ISU rules, there is still a very clear divide between pairs and dance. Trust me, I’ve read the rules and requirements repeatedly and the lines are not blurred as you say.
The Canadians had the best skating skills of the entire last warm-up, period. They had better edges, extension, twizzles, musicality.
As for skaters concerns, I still believe Mr. Scali is just being a sore loser and the Russians should really keep their mouths shut since they were 100 abusing the rules by using the bands on eachother’s customs to perform the lifts..
2010 cannot be compared to 2002. Is the judging system perfect, no…but it is way better than the 6.0 system and it worked at this Olympics.
OH and by the way…that Paula Abdul bimbo is Sandra Bezic…one of the most well-respected chereographers in figure skating. She definately has a clue as to what she is talking about;)
Well well well..
I have no idea who you are Mr Deluca.. but clearly you have little or no knowledge of the world of Ice Dance specifically.. or figure skating in general.
First lets put you straight on Sandra “bimbo” Bezic… who at 53 would I’m sure be delighted to know that you still consider her young enough to be a bimbo..
Unfortunately for you the rest of the world skating community knows different.
She was Canadian Pairs figure skating champion in 1970,71,72,73,74. Finished top 10 at the Olympics and top 10 in the world champs on no fewer than 4 occassions.
After leaving competative skating.. she began working as a choreographer and broadcaster, working with NBC and CBC since 1990.
She has choreographed routines for a number of lowley ranked skaters that you might not have heard of..
Barbra Underhill and Paul Martini.. Their 1984 routine which made them.. oh yes World Pairs champions.
Brian Boitano.. His 1988 long programme which made him.. Oh yes Olympic Champion…Oh and World Champ too.. that routine was a real winner
Kristi Yamaguchi.. Her 1992 free skate routine which made her.. Oh yes Olympic Champion.
Some bloke called Kurt Browning ..no idea what happened to him.. His 1993 programme.. World Champion
Tara Lipinski.. Her 1998 long programme which made her.. Oh yes Olympic Champion.
She’s also done routines for 1990 Ladies World champion Jill Trenary [now she's married to some bloke who knows a bit about skating.. what was his name again ?? Oh yes CHRISTOPHER DEAN !!]
Joannie Rochette, Yu-Na Kim.. now HER you may have heard of… she’s the current leader in the Olympic Ladies competition..
Sandra Bezic was also for many years the producer and co-director and choreographer of a little touring show called “Stars on Ice”.. for which she won an Emmy in 2003… when she retired she passed on that role to another reasonably well know choreographer.. ??
His name escapes me but he’s married to Jill Trenary…
She is an award winning author, and has just finished producing and acting as a judge [with Dick Button] on the hit CBC show “Battle of the Blades.
Now I don’t know but I think given all of the above we can safely say.. she knows more than enough about the world of both professional and competative figure skating to demand the respect of a twerp like you…n’est pas ??
Ok… what shall we deal with next..
So the Italians say that the winners didn’t dance..
Well I say “who the hell died and made them Gene Kelly ??”
I’m sorry.. but Vittue and Moir were one of the few couples who DID dance… and that was clearly a message being sent by the judges in this competition.. that Dancing is what they wanted to see.
80% of the competitors in Monday’s competition hurled themselves, angst ridden, around the ice.
Their arms, legs and superflous fabric flailed about to some nameless piece of operatic classical “music to slash your wrists to”, and over half of them ended their performance with your typical Volcanic death drop.
It has NOTHING whatever to do with Dancing.
When I watch Fred and Ginger movies, or Swan Lake, or SYTYCD.. or even Strictly Come Dancing/Dancing with the Stars.. I’m always dismayed by the total lack of flailing arms and suicidal musical choices.
When Christopher Dean redefined Ice Dancing for a generation with Bolero.. arguably the finest piece of ice skating choreography ever concieved.. little did he know that for the next 26 years, it would seriously hamper [and for many even kill] creativity in the sport…
I suppose when you create something that breaks the mould so completely, you have to expect that IT will become the new mould.. and it has.. oh boy has it
All but a handful of the performers on Monday night used a dour piece of classical music, an overtly flouncey costume, and having flung themselves round like a Tasmanian Devil for 3 mins and 50 secs approx, finished their routine with some tortured pose or went the whole hog and chucked themselves into a mountain.
Believe me I know.. I was there watching it all.
Only a few… The Hungarians, Delobel and Schoenfelder, the Kerrs, the Canadians and the Americans[excluding Belbin and Augusto, who were THE most disappointingly Russian looking pair of the night] tried to do something inovative.. hey here’s an idea.. let’s actually DANCE with each other… it was a hugely refreshing change…
The Hungarians, bless them, even used.. wait for it… DANCE MUSIC !!!
Heavens I thought the roof was going to come off the building.. and it wasn’t because of their skating let me tell you… it was the sigh of relief from the audience, that here was pretty much the first couple of the night who had actually come out to dance…!!
I had some sympathy with the Italians on the night.. In my mind they should have been jostling for the Bronze medal..
But to suggest that what they and the Russians do IS dancing and that what Virtue and Moir do is NOT… Wow.. they are way out of whack… one wonders if they have ever watched ACTUAL dancing..?? and it’s sad that they are so self deluded.
When push comes to shove they are just venting.. pissed that YET again an inferior European couple has beaten them simply because of the power of the Russians within international skating politics.
At this years European championships, the Italians WON both the OD and the Free skate.. yes they WON 80% of the competition.. and still came in second..
That was the night the judging system failed.. not on Monday..
Right.. next..
This is a shorter one I promise..
From your post to Nan.. Hello Nan !!
“The only NBC commentator with knowledge of skating is Scott Hamilton”
I think I’ve already made a reasonably good argument that “the Paula Abdul bimbo” has in fact forgotten more about skating than you will ever know..
Now the other Commentator is a little known gentleman called Dick Button..
What could he possibly know about skating ?? well now let’s see..
He probably picked up a thing or two about the sport when he won the Men’s titles at both the 1948 and 1952 Olympics.. the only man EVER to defend an Olympic title.
He might have learned something more when he was landing the FISRT EVER Double axel performed in competition.. and then again when he landed the FIRST EVER triple jump..
Maybe his knowledge was expanded whilst he was INVENTING the flying camel spin.. know for many years afterwards as the “Button Camel”
Now I’m thinking that he probably greatly increased his knowledge of skating when he won the World Championships.. in 1948.. oh and 1949 and ‘50 and ‘51 .. oh yes.. and 1952.
He must have learned a fair bit when he won the European Championships in 1948.. probably more than they wanted him to learn because the following year they closed the competition to non Europeans..
Plus there was whatever he managed to pick up when winning NINE USA championships.
Then of course there’s whatever knowledge he managed to acquire in the 46 years that he commentated for ABC.. Plus the last 2 for NBC.
And maybe he picked up a thing or two when he CREATED the World Professional Skating championships.
But then again maybe he didn’t manage to pick up any info at all… and Scott Hamilton was the only person talking with knowledge of skating.
Oh of course Dick Button hasn’t ever been a judge.. but then again he did go to Harvard and they gave him a nice certificate and said it would be ok for him to call himself a lawyer… so you could say he has a fairly good grasp of the “rules”
Are you usually this ill informed about the topics you comment on?? Or are you in fact just being deliberately provocative to push peoples buttons and get a response.
If you’re not doing it deliberately.. you really are a complete idiot..
Covergirl, I am going to respond to only once to the book you wrote. If an Olympic Ice Dancing contest is so important that you spent three hours of your life writing comments, my heart goes out to you. Clearly you are Canadian, so you can’t put your personal excitement aside and take off the rose colored glasses. Numerous news organizations reported on this, not me. Where do you think I got the quotes sweetie, did I make them up?
As a former Olympic-training athlete, something I am sure you are not from your silly rant, having a referee or judge steal away a competition is the worst feeling possible. Been there and done it. The complaints from the Italians and the Russians are real and deserve consideration. Personally, I happen to agree with them given I am a former athlete and understand their concern. Their concern is real and to kick dirt in their faces for voicing their concerns is despicable.
Since you’ve clearly never competed, and that is obvious by your three hours of crazy ranting, you wouldn’t understand my point and opinion. Instead, you have to use words like “idiot” and “stupid” in an attempt to diminish my valid points because you know that you no solid footing in your debating point.
As I’ve said multiple times, the Canadian skated well. Not once have I said they didn’t. The judging system for Ice Dancing has become flawed and they are evaluating them like pairs. Dance quality should be equal to technical ability. Based on results, that is not the case. The competitors are griping about this and the ISU should take their gripes under consideration because they are valid.
And by the way, if you think 9 of the Top 10 skaters putting up scores that were on average 10 to 15 higher than their personal best is reality, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.
Nope not Canadian..
I’m curious dom.. what sport are you Olympic trained in..?
Covergirl, the sport I competed in was Greco-Roman wrestling and I trained during the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. My teammate ended up representing the USA at 52 KGs and lost in the bronze medal bought. I’ve seen first hand the sacrifice that Olympians make and I’ll take the side of any competitors that believes there are issues with judging in the sport. While you continue to rant, you not provided any proof that the judges did not error, you are just blabbering opinion. Ice dancing needs to apply a proper balance between dance and technical and this year’s results are proof positive. There is not much debate on this matter.
Domanic/a??
Your entire contention regarding this Ice dance competition has been from the beginning.. [and I notice you reitterated it in your last comment] that: because the Russian and Italian Ice dancers said the judging was wrong… then they MUST be right.
I find it interesting that you consider anyone who disagrees with you to be “blabbering opinion”… when in fact I made my argument very effectively and countered all your assertions with factual evidence to back up my point.
You made many factual ERRORS in all your various comments on this topic. You demonstrated yourself to be ignorant of, and disrespectful to the sport of figure skating…
You have proven yourself to be utterly uninformed about the skating background of either Virtue and Moir [who.. it appears you think burst from nowhere into the world's top 3] or Davis and White.. seemingly unaware that throughout their entire international careers they have beaten Virtue and Moir ONLY ONCE
Your supporting evidence for your theory was that 9 of the top 10 Ice Dancers CANNOT POSSIBLY all have skated their best on the night… and yet achieved their best marks of the year..
Yet you failed to mention that:
Six of the top 10 PAIRS did exactly the same.. the other 4 [all European] scoring their best at the Europeans… which likely only demonstrates a disparity between the cultural preferences of European and International skating judges.
ALL 10 of the top Ladies competitors achieved significantly higher marks than they have scored not just THIS year but..EVER.
And that 7 of the top 10 men ALSO had their best night of the year score wise.
Seems to me that virtually ALL the figure skaters regardless of their discipline bought their “A” game to the biggest night of their lives…[except Jeremy Abbott and Brian Joubert..both of whom had an absolute stinker] and that the Ice Dance scores were no more or less remarkable than any of the other events.
You seem utterly fixated on the idea that the Russian and Italian ice dancers have a legitimate gripe at the judging.. and yet dismiss Evgeny Plushenko’s similar concerns on the matter out of hand.
Perhaps you have less sympathy with Plushenko because an American was the benificiary of his percieved misfortune.. ? I notice you also have a bitch about Davis and White also American, not winning Gold.. But whatever your motivation is.. it’s irrelevent…
To use your very own phrase..
” Figure skating is about flawless execution of the moves you attempt tied to the difficulty of the moves.”
The Russians and Italians execution was respectable NOT flawless but respectable.. BUT the complexity of their choreography and the quality of their edgework, simply didn’t cut the mustard..
I thought it, Robin Cousins thought it; Dick Button, David Pelletier, Liz Manley, Sandra Bezic, Jennifer Robinson, Brian Orser, Courtney Jones, Jamie Salè and Kurt Browning all thought it..and they all actually WON national, world AND Olympic medals.. in figure skating.
and no Greco Roman wrestler who once trained with a guy who DIDNT win a bronze medal.. is qualified to argue otherwise.
wwwwooooooowwwwww
Cover girl quote “I thought it, Robin Cousins thought it; Dick Button, David Pelletier, Liz Manley, Sandra Bezic, Jennifer Robinson, Brian Orser, Courtney Jones, Jamie Salè and Kurt Browning all thought it..and they all actually WON national, world AND Olympic medals.. in figure skating.”
Other than Button, Cousins, and Jones, all of the people you listed are Canadians. Do you honestly think they were going to say that M and V didn’t deserve to win the gold????????? Get Real!!!!!!!!
Cousins and Jones are British. Since the British didn’t have “dog in the race” with a good chance, they were more likely to side with the Canadians.
I also found your….. ” I thought it” ….. comment very amusing. YOU are going to put your opinion on par with the other people you listed. What are your qualifications????? BTW, in which country were you born, covergirl? Where do you live now?
HOWEVER, I will say that I didn”t think the Russians dance deserved bronze, either. I think the ” rope hold” costume design should be eliminated in the future. I did enjoy V and M’s dance. I just didn’t think it deserved the gold. But I’m not going to hold myself as an expert. I’m not!!!!!!!
Hi dede..
Well firstly I would say that I may or may not have intended to include my opinion on the same level as those others I quoted.. to be honest I hadn’t really thought about it…
But now that I do I see no reason why it shouldn’t be. Do you know of any reason why it shouldn’t ?.
I’m posting at the moment from Canada.. but I’m neither Canadian nor do I reside here.. I’m here until the paralympics are over.
I used the above list merely to demonstrate that I was not alone in my opinion on the performance of the Russian and Italian competitors who had questioned the judging of the olympic competition.
I tried only to include the English speaking experts on the subject, since I was certain that Mr/s DeLuca [the person to whom I was posting] would not have known who I was talking about had I quoted tha French, German or say Japanese commentators whose opinions I was also aware of…and yes as a result it was top heavy with Canadians.. so that would have been fair comment….
HOWEVER..
Whilst [as it happens] I do believe the gold and silver medals DID go to the right couples, if you actually READ my post you will see that I was not using the comments of these people in reference to the performance of the Canadians OR the Americans… I was in fact talking about D&S and F&S.
I quote…
“The Russians and Italians execution was respectable. NOT flawless but respectable.. BUT the complexity of their choreography and the quality of their edgework, simply didn’t cut the mustard..”
This is the point on which I and the original poster disagree…
And whilst HE/SHE supported his opinion by quoting the Russians and Italians themselves[who OF COURSE were biased in favour of themselves...].. I supported my opinion with the list of experts who’s thoughts on the subject YOU seem to think should be tossed aside simply because they come from Canada, Britain and the USA… I wonder exactly who you would accept.?
That having been said… why would Dick Button favour the Canadians?
He is a very staunch American who has long been a vocal fan of Davis and White, and Sandra Bezic, despite her place of birth has been a commentator for more than 25 years for the American networks… she is an extremely savvy lady who is most certainly not predisposed to bite the hand that feeds her.
I also question your assumption that the British experts I quoted would be more likely to favour the Canadians…
In my experience both of the gentlemen concerned have never been anything other than totally even handed when commenting on figure skating performances… and in their comments to the press afterwards.
You are of course entitled to your opinion.. you didn’t say who you did think should have won?
I may not agree with it.. BUT I wouldn’t criticise you for it.. certain elements of Ice Dance are and always have been subjective… although that subjectivity is under attack from the new judging system, and that’s good news.
No.. my issue with the original poster was based not on his opinion..
It was based on his poor research and knowledge [or the lack thereof] of the subject matter, and that he tried to pass off conjecture, and HIS opinion as fact.. which it clearly was not.
Wow. What an interesting read this thread turned into. I actually Googled “Italians criticize Virtue and Moir”, and arrived here today, after saving a link for their post Gold Press Conference video on a Canadian site that I just had the time to watch, and a strange question put to them from an American reporter, that took Scott Moir by surprise and myself, as I’d not heard anything about it before.
So I apreciate the actual Italian and Russian quotes from the Blogger Dominic, as I had assumed it was press nonsense, and the Italians would never have said anything like that – it wasn’t reported in the official ISU account – but it seems yes, they really did.
Covergirl, I take my hat off to you, sterling work with the facts and figures re Sandra Bezic, Dick Button and everything else in your attempts to refute the argument by Dominic. Sadly, in the age of internet Blogging, people with a passing interest in ‘Sport on TV’ can write poorly informed opinions and pass them off as fact, then be unable to respond to cogent arguments pointing out why they’re wrong.
I’m sure you’re British BTW Covergirl, and if you were competing or covering the Paralympic events, hope it all went well for you.
Dominic, my cousin in Cyprus competed in Greco-Roman Wrestling, and anyone who competes or trains in any sport deserves respect, but where you are totally wrong is in stating that Virtue & Moir’s Freedance was the 5th best on the night for ‘Dancing and Interpretation’. Since they entered the Senior Worlds 4 seasons ago, all of their Freedances have been performed in a seamless way, linking all of the (now endless) technical requirements under the new system. Their transitions and elements blend smoothly as one, and there is no clunky seperation of ‘here’s our circular step sequence, curve lift, rotational lift, twizzles’ etc. You don’t notice their elements as such till the whole thing is over because quite simply they are dancing on ice and captivating your imagination and attention, you’re not thinking about step sequences.
Before reading this thread, I watched on Youtube the TEB Paris GP performance of their FD and Canadian Nats. Neither was as good because, as Covergirl explained, a Freedance grows during the season with little adjustments, and they were primed and ready for the Olympics in their home country. Who wouldn’t be inspired to skate better than they ever have? Ofcourse the scores would go up for such performances. There was no conspiracy, or pre-ordained scoring. Indeed some Americans (Christine Brennan) tried to suggest before the Olympics that because the Technical Specialist at the event was going to be Marika Humphreys-Baranova (a Brit, married to a former Ukrainian) that she would favour the Russians. Both Davis & White and Virtue & Moir outskated the Russians and were scored ahead, so that pre-Olympic conspiracy talk was nonsense.
What was quite evident was that in the OD and FD, D&W and V&M were in another league compared to the rest of the competitors. Both couples have improved out of sight this season. Frankly, I thought last year at Worlds that V&M should’ve won the CD, and this season I would still have them ahead of their training mates in the CD segment of Ice Dance. In both the OD and FD in Vancouver they skated after D&W had skated 2 brilliant routines, but still V&M had that extra elan, unison, maturity and interpretation, and it was no surprise that V&M went ahead on both routines. I don’t dispute that some may prefer the Bollywood dance, and Phantom, of Davis and White – indeed Jayne Torvill preferred their FD routine, and said so last week in her magazine column – but she still said that V&M were worthy winners. Most comment I’ve read from people who liked D&W’s performance more still agreed that V&M were also incredible and had no quibble with the Gold, but just thought D&W very unlucky. It’s the fact this Blogger states they are somehow inferior as dancers and interpretors of music that is so laughable.
As for Faiella & Scali, they surprise me greatly. For the second time. The first was after Europeans, giving an interview to Eurosport – when the entire COP system was shown in a preposterous light, as Covergirl says, they won 80% of the competition but still got Silver – yet they said they “wanted to win silver” and were “very happy”, and the Russians “deserved Gold”. Bizarre, or overly polite, as I thought then, or far too deferential. Inspite of their very good performance in Tallin, they are limited as a couple in what they can do, and I certainly don’t consider them outstanding dancers who have qualities that V&M don’t.
I don’t have sympathy for Belbin & Agosto either. Their Moldavian OD and pseudo religious FD didn’t appeal to me, and I’m still smarting from them winning silver in Torino and denying Delobel & Schoenfelder a much more deserved Olympic medal in 2006.
As for Pairs/Dance blurring, which Dominic is concerned about, well the couple who blur the disciplines are the 2nd Russians Khochlova & Novitiski, whose routines consist entirely of her doing acrobatic moves with gymnastic flexibilty, and very little dancing, as a couple, with her technically weaker partner. That is not ice dance. What V&M do most definitely is.
Huriye, you and Covergirl can read between the lines and debate all you want. Neither of you are the athletes that competed, you are merely fans with biased opinions. The only people’s opinions about the judging system that matters are the athletes. The comments from the Russians and Italians are valid and deserve recognition. My article here was in support of an opinion from those skaters that I happen to agree with. The Russians and Italians believe the dance component was not fairly judged. It is a fair critique. Not once have I stated the Canadian skated poorly, but giving the proper weighted balance the Russians and Italians have complained about, it places them fifth.
The judging across the board in all figure skating events was poor and all the scores were inflated. Covergirl proved my point with all her research, all data which I was already familiar with before writing the post. This story is about a flawed judging system, not the Canadians. It is this type of judging that led me to compete in a sport where I controlled my own destiny.
I’m confused as to whether you are Dominic or Dominica? Anyhow, your assertion that those who disagree with you are “biased fans”, but you stick up for, and value, what the athletes say – why then do you dismiss Plushenko’s complaints out of hand, but give such weight to D&S and F&S? Bizarre.
Did it occur to you that a) Ice Dance aficionados who have followed the sport for 30 years and are from neutral countries are giving an independent opinion – how am I biased? I am neither Canadian, Russian nor Italian. And B) Until very recently, Ice Dance was a sport where couples took their turn in waiting to climb the rankings. 2 couples from North America entered senior Worlds 4 seasons ago and were ranked straight into the Top 10, immediately overtaking other couples who assumed they would be moving towards the podium in this Olympic cycle. Like Torvill & Dean, way back in 1981, Virtue & Moir have won a Gold Medal at world level in only their 4th season of competing at senior world level. Thereby putting several other couples’ noses out of joint who have trundled along, improving and climbing inch by inch, but ultimately being overtaken by a superior talent.
FYI, there is no specific “Dance Component” in the scores, and generally V&M have always fared extremely well in all the Program Component scores, even when their Technical Element scores have been lower than those below them in the rankings in previous seasons.
Your insistence that 2 couples from Europe who have uttered jealous complaints have to be listened to with reverence is bizarre. It is not uncommon for the losers in Ice Dance to utter disparaging remarks about other couples whom they deem unworthy podium finishers. Indeed the Russians complained about Torvill & Dean at the Europeans in 1984, imagining that because it was an Olympic year, they would automatically be placed ahead of the British couple. When they realised they were being ridiculous, they stopped whining and admitted T&D were simply better. Ofcourse that was before the days of internet blogging, when people with a personal agenda projected their own disappointment about something in their own lives, wrapped up with a gross lack of knowledge, and made it into something and nothing.
My final point to you would be this:
Apart from repeating endlessly the assertion that the Italians and Russians complained, they should be listened to, it was bad judging, and V&M cannot Dance – where are your points, one by one, to back up your opinion about V&M’s Freedance not being worthy of Gold? Have you mentioned one word about choreography, musicality, performance, unison, skating skills, edges, footwork difficulty, Lifts, etc etc.? What do you think constitues ‘Dance’? You haven’t actually said yet – at all!
Any passing observer could see that the Gold and Silver medalists had by far the best, and most intricate, and most thrilling choreography. Marina Zueva has alot of Torvill & Dean influences, which is nice to see, and they were by far the most exciting couples to watch. That’s Dance!
Plushenko’s comments were fantasyland, that’s why. Figure skating is about executing moves and landing them. Its a combination of degree of difficulty and flawless execution. He got beat, period based on the judging system in place. In ice dancing, the judging is equal weight to dancing and technical. There is not difficulty or flawlee component either. But it is the basis of how they are supposed to judge.
Like I said before you opinion my opinion don’t count. When multiple athletes have valid claims, they shouldn’t be dismissed. And if you don’t think they are valid in sport that had been hammered for poor judging for years, then you are nothing more than a biased fan. The sport of figure skating skill needs to be cleaned up further.